Nov. 18, 2025

EP 18 | Smart Scaling Techniques for Growth and Exit Preparation

EP 18 | Smart Scaling Techniques for Growth and Exit Preparation

Deals make headlines, but operations drive real results. Olenka Cullinan, COO and operator, joins Paloma Goggins to show how founders move from constant firefighting to running a company that thrives without them. From reclaiming your calendar with “CEO time architecture” to building SOPs that anyone can use, Olenka shares practical strategies to scale efficiently, reduce burnout, and prepare for a high-value exit. Learn how to delegate effectively, hire the right players, optimize client por...

Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon PlayerFM podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon PlayerFM podcast player icon
Season 1

Deals make headlines, but operations drive real results.

Olenka Cullinan, COO and operator, joins Paloma Goggins to show how founders move from constant firefighting to running a company that thrives without them. From reclaiming your calendar with “CEO time architecture” to building SOPs that anyone can use, Olenka shares practical strategies to scale efficiently, reduce burnout, and prepare for a high-value exit.

Learn how to delegate effectively, hire the right players, optimize client portfolios, and turn slow training into long-term speed. True freedom comes from systems, not hustle and Olenka proves it’s possible.

Press play for actionable insights that boost value, sanity, and your path to exit-ready operations.

00:01 - Cold Open: Big Deals, Bigger Stakes

00:35 - Meet Paula And Olenka

01:23 - Why Women Burn Out Before They Fail

03:01 - Perfectionism, Micromanaging, And Delegation

06:12 - Hiring B Players And Avoiding C Players

09:06 - Training Slow And Building Capability

09:08 - The One System That Changes Everything: Time

11:08 - CEO Time Architecture And Focus

14:05 - Blocks, Green Marker Game, And Boundaries

18:00 - Are You Ready To Scale Or Not Yet

20:12 - Exit Readiness: Profit, SOPs, Predictability

23:17 - Lessons From Olenka’s Exit And Resilience

26:55 - From Chaos To Portugal: A Client Turnaround

29:20 - Fewer Attorneys, Stronger Support, Same Revenue

31:10 - Audit Team Cost And Client Value

34:05 - Letting Go Of Low-Value Clients Safely

37:00 - The Biggest Block: Fear And I-Got-It Syndrome

40:12 - SOPs That Actually Get Used

43:20 - Software Sprawl, Priorities, And Quick Wins

47:00 - Breaking Through Plateaus With Time And Math

50:30 - Final Advice: Freedom Through Operations

WEBVTT

00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:06.559
In the world of business, not all deals are what they see.

00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:12.800
Fortunes rise, empires crumble, all with a stroke of a pen.

00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:17.359
Mergers, acquisitions, hostile takeovers.

00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:26.960
Welcome to Mergers She Wrote, where we examine strategies and stories behind the biggest deals in business.

00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:32.719
Because in MA, the real risks are the ones you don't take.

00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:38.000
Welcome back to another episode of Mergers She Wrote.

00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:41.600
I'm Paula McGaughins, your host and the owner of Nocturnal Legal.

00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:47.840
Today's guest is an expert in operations, and she's going to tell you how you can systematize your business.

00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:49.759
Welcome, Olenka Cullen.

00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:52.159
Thank you for being on.

00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:58.560
So Olenka is an accomplished COO with 15 plus years of experience.

00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:03.280
She's been named Top 100 Women to Watch and Phoenix 40 under 40.

00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:04.640
I love her bio.

00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:18.959
And today we are going to talk all about her consultant business, and you're going to tell us more about how you help people get in there, work as a chief operational officer, and really just get their business running better.

00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:20.640
So thank you so much for being on.

00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:22.719
I'm going to hop right into the questions.

00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:23.439
Love it.

00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:25.200
So let's start with your mission.

00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:32.640
And correct me if my range is wrong here, but you work with women running businesses between$500,000 and$10 million in revenue.

00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:33.120
Is that right?

00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:34.959
That is absolutely perfect.

00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:39.359
What are the most common scaling challenges that you see at that stage?

00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:41.599
Well, I I want to share a little bit more on that.

00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:42.640
And thanks for having me.

00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:43.519
I love it.

00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:45.359
And I love the name of a podcast.

00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:46.640
Thank you, appropriate.

00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:47.439
I love it.

00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:57.519
Yes, so one of the things with my mission too is the reason I'm so passionate about that is there are only 2% of women that break into a million-dollar mark.

00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:06.319
And for me, scaling, right, comes with one thing that I've seen so many women go through, which a lot of them burnout.

00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:10.560
A lot more women businesses suffer from burnout than failure.

00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:18.479
And because of it, I think one of the things that I focus on with scaling women in my way is balance, right?

00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:21.439
I truly say that we take them from burnout to balance.

00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:25.039
And the best way and the fastest way to get there is operations.

00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.360
Because women are, we love our aesthetics, we love everything pretty.

00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:36.319
We love, you know, naming things, creating gorgeous spaces, creating our aesthetics and our branding.

00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:45.360
But sometimes we forget that the most important part of your business is that unsexy back end, no puns intended, that nobody looks wants to look at.

00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:47.199
So that that's what I focus on.

00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:53.360
I truly want women to take that piece and create freedom for themselves as they're scaling.

00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:54.639
I love that.

00:02:54.879 --> 00:03:00.879
And so when women come to you, what I think what are like the key issues that you're seeing?

00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:08.719
Obviously, lack of systems probably is the key one, but are there other components of that lack of systems and operations that you're seeing most more frequently?

00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:10.319
Definitely lack of time, right?

00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:13.759
We say yes to everything, and then that pretty much eats away our own time.

00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:18.479
Definitely lack uh, not lack maybe, but like the way women are hiring often.

00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:24.879
We hire to relieve pressure rather than hiring for operational excellence and allowing people to become champions.

00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:31.360
And then I would say the nurture and women often kills everything because they're also excellent micromanagers.

00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:38.879
And even though they're running a million-dollar companies, they often operate uh and scale as a solopreneur at 300K.

00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:50.000
Well, and I think that is such an important point to bring up is that micromanaging component because I think it's so easy.

00:03:50.159 --> 00:04:00.479
And I I even myself am guilty of this, where I will rework something that's an internal process of mine for an effort to be perfection.

00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:04.080
And we all know perfection is not something that's ever attainable, right?

00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:08.719
And at some point you just got to launch, you just gotta launch that system, you gotta launch that process.

00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:17.759
For people who are struggling with that micromanagement, that perfectionism, you know, obviously working with you helps them through that process.

00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:24.160
But, you know, are there ways that someone, you know, can sort of trick their brain to be like, oh shoot, I'm doing it again.

00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:30.399
I'm wasting my time sort of doiling or toiling over this, like one specific issue, and I should just move forward.

00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:31.279
Yeah, definitely.

00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:33.839
And I mean, it's normal human quality, right?

00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:39.839
And especially for women because we are nurturing and loving kind of traditionally, and a lot of us do care, right?

00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:44.800
Like we care so much, and we want like how many times you've heard women say, This is my baby, okay?

00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:46.079
This is not your baby.

00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.839
First of all, let's just give each other permission to know that part.

00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:57.199
But also, I would say it's giving yourself grace, but also knowing that you have to delegate and kind of making the choice, right?

00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:58.079
Making the choice.

00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:02.399
First of all, I tell women all the time, this is my official permission for everybody listening.

00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:04.399
Yes, they will never be as good as you.

00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:08.079
Nobody on your team or whoever you hire will never be as good as you.

00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:12.079
So my invitation is always can they perform at 80% of your hundred?

00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:14.560
Because your hundred in reality is 150.

00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.480
And so they will never be able to attain that level most of the time.

00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:26.399
So the goal is, you know, I say, yes, it's B in a common, you know, grade knowledge, but 80% in business, that means they're actually excelling.

00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:36.560
And so whenever you hire people or working on tasks or getting ready to launch, are we at about 80% capacity at a 80% rate at 80% value?

00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:43.519
And if you are there, let it go and kind of accept that and make the choice that anything at 80% goes.

00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:50.720
I like that because inherently hiring is such a difficult next step for people.

00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:53.120
Delegation is inherently the hardest step.

00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:56.160
You don't even have to hire somebody to potentially delegate, right?

00:05:56.399 --> 00:06:11.920
Um, and so this idea that you've got to be okay with people not being a copycat of you, because I feel like there's so much expectation there in many businesses that when you hire, that person is going to be able to fill your shoes completely.

00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:14.639
And you're so right, they're never going to fill the shoes.

00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:24.000
No, and I always say hire B players because you can turn them into A players, don't hire C players because a lot of times, again, it was the previous point I brought up.

00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:27.759
People hire for relieving pressure because we are in such deadlock.

00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:31.040
We need somebody, let's just throw some money out and bring someone in.

00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:35.920
And we forget that it's almost impossible to take a C player and build them into a B player.

00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:42.160
It takes a lot longer versus taking a solid B player and you know bringing them up to A level.

00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:51.199
When we talk A, B, and C player, for someone who is new to hiring or is has maybe just struggled with hiring the right people.

00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:55.360
Are there ways for those people to know whether they're a B or a C?

00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:56.000
Absolutely.

00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:57.839
It also depends, obviously, right?

00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:01.680
Like I always say hires for skill set, but also watch the culture.

00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:06.160
If it's your first hire, it may not be a big deal because they basically cater into you.

00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:11.600
But if you're a team, you know, four, six, ten, twelve, that's where a culture does play an important part.

00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:16.879
So I usually say a player is somebody who has 80% skill set of what you're looking for.

00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:26.800
You know, 60%, we're now more like at a you know, solid B that we have to ramp up, and then anything below 50, you don't want those people just because again, it's time, right?

00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:27.839
Training takes time.

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:33.839
As you and I both know, it's probably the most expensive operational resource is humans.

00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:37.040
And also, you know, to your point, like do it slow.

00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:50.480
You don't have to bring, like, don't wait till you are your own bottleneck to bring someone in, but also don't, you know, rush so much that you now are having, you know, a team of four and you've never really worked with one person.

00:07:51.040 --> 00:08:00.399
I I think that's really sound advice because I can't tell you how many times I've I've spoken with clients and they they like to throw money at the problem.

00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:05.600
And then they get into, okay, well, now they've got, like you said, hire three people all at once.

00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:07.680
Maybe they're not first-time hires, right?

00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:10.399
But just adding a bulk of people to the team.

00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:15.600
And then to your point, training is a full-time position for most part, right?

00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:25.439
So you either have to have the bandwidth to train three people all at once or have people in place to train those three people for you, which most people I feel like aren't in a good position to have that.

00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:27.600
Yeah, definitely not.

00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:31.120
Well, then again, right, you are basically invest in time up front.

00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:34.320
People forget that hiring is where you invest time up front.

00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:39.600
And then it will come obviously, it will be an amazing process later when you do train them up.

00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:45.200
But yeah, I would say yes, start slow always, you know, as they say, hire slow, fire fast.

00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:49.519
And I would say train slow too, because it's it's solid.

00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:53.279
And once you get them there, it's gonna be really, really helpful in the long run.

00:08:53.440 --> 00:09:02.000
But at the first few, you know, weeks, months, however complicated the training is, you as a founder are gonna take a big bulk of it for sure.

00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:03.279
A hundred percent.

00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:04.559
No, for sure.

00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:08.080
So you focus on creating systems for scalability.

00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:14.799
What's what's one system or process that once in place tends to immediately change how an owner operates?

00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:19.120
I am gonna say one that's probably super unusual and most people don't take too seriously.

00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:20.000
It's time.

00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:24.960
I I say it because, you know, it's basically I call it CEO time architecture.

00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:35.360
And I am really adamant with my clients about that because where you are spending your time as a founder is gonna become either the bottleneck in your business or the biggest growth catalyst to your business.

00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:40.639
Because there are areas, and you know, I call it vital few for all of your team for yourself.

00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:49.120
If you don't know what your vital few are and where you're spending your time, if you're spending 80% of your time in the wrong places, that's stalling the growth for your business.

00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:52.080
And people unfortunately take time very laxidatical.

00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:57.440
You know, we have founders who run multi-million dollar company who say yes to run things all the time.

00:09:57.519 --> 00:09:59.919
They spend their days what I call firefighting.

00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.279
That means, you know, they're always in reactive, never in proactive.

00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:09.279
They are putting out fires, they are making things happen, they're checking in, you know, dialing in, touching base.

00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:17.600
And then before we do all those things, there is no time to actually be in your CEO position, in your position that allows the company to grow.

00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:23.279
You are the only person as a founder, no matter how big or small your company is, who can make big moves, right?

00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:27.519
Your VAs can't do it, your second-in-command can't do it most of the time.

00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:36.799
And so for me, creating that time architecture either frees up your schedule to make massive growth, or it's gonna be the biggest bottleneck in your company.

00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:38.399
I like that.

00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:52.799
And I also feel like as a as someone who like you runs a business and is exceptionally busy, if someone is wanting to implement more time into their schedule, what are things that you recommend that someone can do?

00:10:52.879 --> 00:11:08.480
Because I think a lot of times most of us look at our calendar, our schedule, and even if we block off time, it's so easy to get off track, or like you said, start fire, you know, fighting fires or getting, you know, waist deep in your inbox and all of a sudden you look up and half your afternoon is gone.

00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:16.159
So what I mean, what are some easy like low-hanging fruit kind of tactics for making time or creating that CEO day that you're talking about?

00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:16.960
Yeah, for sure.

00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.679
Like one thing I highly recommend testing for everybody.

00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:21.200
I call it the grain marker game.

00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:22.000
It's super easy.

00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:29.679
You basically every Friday look at your calendar and see, like highlight in green all the money-making activities you are doing for your position, right?

00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:38.240
It doesn't always mean that you're client-facing if you have a team, a sales team, but what are you doing as a CEO, as a you know, leader and where you spend your time?

00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:45.919
Because a lot of times I see even with my clients when they highlight everything in green and they're like, I spent 10% of my time in green, what am I doing?

00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:46.320
Right?

00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:51.279
Like a lot of times it's a biggest wake-up call because we don't realize even where our time goes.

00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:52.480
So that's one thing.

00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:55.600
Another thing, I would definitely create some blocks in your schedule.

00:11:55.759 --> 00:12:02.399
And what I'm saying, like if you're not working on block schedule, I'm a big proponent of that because it makes you it confronts you with your time.

00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:11.200
If you're writing things in your calendar when you know you don't have time to write it, that means you are out of time and you have to be candid and honest about it.

00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:17.440
And a lot of us say yes to things when we don't even have time to do them and then we're burned out and resentful, right?

00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:25.039
So create blocks where it allows you to kind of like take analysis of where you're spending time on, depending on what your North Star is at that moment, right?

00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:25.840
Are you growing?

00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:28.080
Then you should be spending most of your time on growth.

00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:33.600
Are you kind of in a solid, you know, position now where you are dominating the market?

00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:35.840
Then how can we create better processes?

00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:42.960
If we're in the hiring stage, then what are we, you know, where can we hire who who why, you know, we're hiring.

00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:51.759
So I would say create blocks that allow you to spend time on the CEO time and don't give it up because a lot of times the leaders are their worst business owners.

00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:57.759
They're like their own worst bosses because they take their own time off the calendar so easily.

00:12:57.840 --> 00:12:59.679
So don't take your time off the calendar.

00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:00.879
I love that.

00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.559
I think it's such a slippery slope for so many founders, right?

00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:06.960
Uh but I mean, I'm even guilty of that.

00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:18.320
I'll put I'll like reserve time on my calendar to take like an afternoon walk around just to get up from my desk and it's the first thing that gets written over, or I'm, you know, look up the walk time that was like half hour is just gone.

00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:20.480
I've done emails through the whole process.

00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.559
Yes, super, super candid moment.

00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:29.679
I was literally like yelling at myself metaphorically this morning because I allowed my calendar to get out of control in the last two days.

00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:31.279
And I'm like, this is crazy.

00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:32.320
I teach this.

00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:33.360
Like, what?

00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:35.360
And I'm very quick to notice.

00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:38.720
So I'll be the first one to like self-confront, as I call it.

00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:40.799
But yeah, it's definitely a slippery slope.

00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:42.399
And to put yourself on a pip.

00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.159
You're like, okay, Olenka, we need to do better.

00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:48.000
Let's let's have a talk.

00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:50.080
Oh, that's too funny.

00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:58.639
Um, when a founder says that they want to scale, what are the first signs to you that maybe they might actually not be ready to scale yet?

00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.679
Yeah, I definitely say look at your profit margins.

00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.440
And you know, to scale, you need usually funding of sorts, right?

00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.919
Like what are we scaling and in which way?

00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:12.480
And so do you have financial support and financials in general, right?

00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:30.240
Like I always say, when we scale, I want you to have clean financials and I want you to have a clear understanding where we're going because it's so easy to say yes, and then we are like scrambling and struggling because a lot of times, as you know, and I'm sure you've seen it with what you do, uh, bad scale can destroy companies or definitely stall them quite a bit.

00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:32.399
So you have to be cautious with that.

00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:35.120
And the other piece also is how willing are you to delegate?

00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:36.000
Because I don't care.

00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:47.759
Like I have so many founders and I've met so many founders who say I want to scale, and then they're the ones who are basically doing one step forward, two step back, because they will release the rain a little bit and then micromanage everyone to death.

00:14:48.000 --> 00:15:06.240
So we definitely want to be ready and understanding that what takes you to get to that first million is not gonna be the same to get you to the 10 million, because here you still can like struggle, scramble by and crawl your way as a solopreneur for the most part, maybe having a team of VAs to that first million.

00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:11.600
But by the time you grow in million to five to 10, you definitely will have to have a team.

00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:12.799
No, that makes sense.

00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:15.600
And I was gonna say, kind of tangential to that point.

00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:21.120
I think a lot of people will hear the advice of like delegate or hire.

00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:26.799
But to your point, you have to look at the financials first before you pull the trigger on that.

00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:41.120
Because even if you are the bottleneck right now, but your financials don't allow you the freedom to operate safely with employees, you might have just taken on a bunch of employees that you're going to struggle to afford.

00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:48.799
And to your point, one step forward, two steps back, all of a sudden you're in crisis mode, trying to bring in more revenue to cover the nut, essentially.

00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.120
And that's not a position you want to be in either.

00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:51.679
Never.

00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:52.000
Yeah.

00:15:52.080 --> 00:16:01.200
And that creates, I feel like, again, so much stress for some companies that it basically then they start almost like scaling back by default, which is also not a good place.

00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:01.600
Yeah.

00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:02.240
Agreed.

00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:10.240
I and I was gonna say some of the conversations that I've had with clients where we sit down and we're talking about a future exit, right?

00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.279
Not anytime soon, but just it's on the horizon.

00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:17.759
They're they're growing, they're successful, they know they have value in their business.

00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:28.960
And, you know, we'll talk about, okay, well, if you want to continue to grow for the next five years for an even bigger exit, in order to scale, you have to, to your point, make the time.

00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:38.080
You have to have not just the CEO time, but you have to have either the team in place to be able to implement the systems and follow through with them.

00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:40.960
Because no different than working with them on legal documents.

00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:49.360
Like I come in and I'm like, you guys haven't had an operating agreement drafted since the 1990s, and you don't even have the same people owning the business anymore.

00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:54.960
And, you know, we could run down this laundry list of things that are just good hygiene for the business.

00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:00.240
But when it comes time, they still have to work with me in order for me to draft the document.

00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:11.279
And if they don't carve out the time to do that, I'm left, you know, to essentially put in a bunch of blanks in a document and say, hey, when you want to make the time, let's chat and we'll complete this document.

00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.200
And then sometimes it never gets completed.

00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:24.319
So to your point, if they don't have the ability to devote time and resources to the actual effort of scaling and systemizing their business, yeah, what's it for?

00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.519
Yeah, I'm a big fan of strategic and intentional, right?

00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.599
Two words we definitely want to plug in there.

00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.160
And I'm sure you see that a lot.

00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:37.680
Um what is let's let's talk about exit readiness.

00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.440
So, how early should a business start thinking about an exit strategy?

00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:46.079
And I and I want to take this time too to talk a little bit about your personal experience with exiting.

00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:46.960
Yeah, for sure.

00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:54.960
I say, you know, I tell businesses you should start building an exit or think about it at least uh when you're profitable, right?

00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.279
So again, it's that conversation of time and money combined is the best time.

00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:07.440
And I don't think there's necessarily too early as long as you're profitable and you are there, because buyers want predictability, as you know.

00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:15.759
Buyers want a business that's not heavy on CEO or founder because they want to know that if that person were to exit, they can still continue.

00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:22.000
They want clean financials, they want clean SOPs, they want some kind of operational system that's very easy to follow.

00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:30.000
So the more predictability you create in your business, which if you take the exit out of the picture, is really just a sign of good business.

00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:38.000
And if you run your business with intention, with care, with that, you know, system and operational pieces that need to be in place.

00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:41.279
I per se don't have early too early.

00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:42.079
I've always knew.

00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:43.920
So that's speaking to my own exit.

00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:50.640
I've always known that, you know, the Rising Tycoons company that I was running and I ended up selling IP to Discovery Ed.

00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:58.960
I didn't know how it was gonna be, but I always ran it with an idea that we will get to the time where it's not a legacy company, right?

00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:02.000
It was a great company, it was something I loved doing.

00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:09.200
I mean, we put over what almost 10,000 kids for the program in four years, 1,500 educators launched it in three countries.

00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:10.880
It was like startup on steroids.

00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:25.920
But from day one, I knew that I wanted to run it in a system, in a place, in the way that it was presented, where we could take a piece or all of a company and create that freedom, whether it's exit, whether it's making it a nonprofit, where it's bringing someone else to run it.

00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.759
So I always looked at options early on as soon as we started making profit.

00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:40.559
And by the way, I want to make a very distinct difference: profit, not revenue, because there are plenty of companies out there that can show you significant revenue with very little profit.

00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.680
So we definitely want to focus on profits in that case.

00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:45.119
Excellent point.

00:19:45.279 --> 00:20:02.480
I feel like uh for anyone who Doom scrolls out there and sees the people who publish their revenue, it's such a misguided uh revenue metric because at the end of the day, you're right, it's it's not always indicative of how successful the business is, but it looks on paper like they're crushing it.

00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:05.039
So some misconceptions out there.

00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:13.920
And also I think it it gives the false idea that it's so easy to just go out there and you know build a million-dollar business in three days.

00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:19.119
And then you can have all the Instagram moments and yachts and cars and all the things you can't imagine.

00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:27.519
But yeah, and especially for you, I'm sure when you are doing whether it's merger, whether it's you know, exit, you can see that profit is what drives it, right?

00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:32.079
The Ibadah, the all the things that actually show how successful a business really is.

00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:32.559
Yes.

00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.359
Well, and I was gonna say too, a key factor.

00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:43.440
You talked about having, you know, a very CEO-centric business being problematic, you know, key, key man, key woman syndrome, right?

00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:52.079
Where you pull the founder out and all of a sudden the business ceases to be that's a huge factor in a lot of small businesses, especially in the valley here.

00:20:52.400 --> 00:21:02.079
Um, but also I I see a lot people not realizing that, you know, the financials, like you were saying, the financials are so critical.

00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:09.519
But a lot of times people will will look at the variation or the the density of clients.

00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:23.839
And there are so many businesses that I've seen personally that either struggle to find a buyer because buyers are very nervous to buy a business where there's two major players that are providing all the revenue.

00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.519
And if you lose those two, the bulk of the revenue is gone, right?

00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:34.400
Um, but also just this idea that, you know, maybe there is no business if that one big client is gone.

00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:41.119
You see that a ton with uh government contracting or local, local government contracting, especially in the valley here.

00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:51.039
You know, you might have a street sweeper company and they've got the city of, you know, Mesa or Chandler or whatever, and that is their main client and they're crushing it.

00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:55.039
But, you know, that if that city pulls out and gets it another bid, absolutely.

00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:56.240
What happens then?

00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:56.720
Right.

00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:03.599
And I literally had this conversation a couple of days ago with another client who's in accounting, and the conversation was exactly that.

00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:07.039
I said, I don't need you go find more clients to prove a point.

00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:08.400
I want you to find more clients.

00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:16.880
So if you have a word to sell, which there is some conversation and thought in that direction, you actually can prove that it's not luck, right?

00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:22.559
You didn't just get lucky, you actually show a business model that's running with multiple various entities.

00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:24.000
So it's such a good point.

00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:28.480
So let's go back to your exit a little bit before I go to my next question.

00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:39.440
Um, as someone who has built, scaled, and exited a business, you know, for anyone who is somewhere along that process, right?

00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.119
Um, because you know, people don't realize you've got to start somewhere.

00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:46.559
You're you could be growing and still have that exit opportunity in the future.

00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:51.920
And then you could also be kind of at the tail end where you know your value and you're thinking about exiting imminently.

00:22:52.160 --> 00:23:01.039
What are some things that you learned from that process that would be helpful for someone listening to learn about and potentially apply to their business as well?

00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:01.920
Yeah, for sure.

00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:03.119
Such a good question.

00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:08.720
And honestly, all the things you probably don't want to learn are so key.

00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:21.680
Like obviously knowing your financials and truly, I don't need you to be an accountant and no one needs you to know all the you know specialty and all the products and everything, but you absolutely need to know main numbers in your business.

00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:22.880
Are you profitable?

00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:28.559
What takes you to get profitable, how much you need to scale, what are you trying to scale on, right?

00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:29.680
Like what's your goal?

00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.440
And I always say to me, that piece with financials.

00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.200
I mean, you're basically buying your freedom.

00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:43.920
And whichever way, like you said, whether it's exit, whether it's merger, whether it's just you bringing to run someone else to run it, you have to create that freedom.

00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:45.839
So know your financials.

00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:50.640
Definitely have very, very standard operating procedures.

00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:52.079
Very, very standard.

00:23:52.319 --> 00:24:01.279
The easier you can make them and the more palatable they can be for other people to come in and run, the easier and more attractive it's gonna be for any buyers.

00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:03.759
This is what actually, and it was interesting, right?

00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.799
Because when my exit happened, it was a complete accident.

00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:19.440
But because I think internally, and I grew up with a mother who was a CEO who basically threw on operations, who taught me from day one that I don't care how pretty it is and aesthetic it is and brand, and we love all those pieces.

00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:24.000
But if you don't know your operations, if you don't understand the core, you're never gonna be able to scale.

00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:33.119
And I think she drilled that into me so much that everything we build was built on SOPs, everything was built on a very clear, like standard operational procedures.

00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:34.799
I had key players in place.

00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:36.400
I've always hired people.

00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:43.599
My always like I would say one strength that I do have even now, I've always brought people who could run it without me.

00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:56.240
Meaning it doesn't mean that I'm not still a key player, it doesn't mean I'm not a key woman and I don't bring my ideas, but they in terms of operations specifically, like it just happened in my personal life.

00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:58.319
I uh, you know, I'm gonna share something personal.

00:24:58.480 --> 00:24:59.599
My mom passed away recently.

00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:00.400
I'm sorry to hear you.

00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:00.960
Thank you.

00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:04.960
And but because of it, I was able to completely walk away for two weeks, not worry about it.

00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:10.720
All my clients were taken care of, everything was running, they were doing in some places, probably a better job than me, candidly.

00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:25.119
But it's again, and I I'm sharing this personal, you know, story here because I think so many people underestimate the value of how much freedom you can create in your business if your operations are in place, your SOPs are written properly, and anyone can step in to run them.

00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:27.279
And then also you know your financials.

00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:42.240
I think that is incredibly powerful because nobody realizes quite how much freedom they want or potentially deserve in their business until something happens in your personal life where you do need that time.

00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:57.039
And I think, you know, unfortunately, a lot of times those events aren't the most painful events in your life, but they also are a reality check about, you know, is your business because I I it's wonderful to hear that you were able to do that.

00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.640
And you, I mean, obviously, you know, a woman of your word, right?

00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.559
This is stuff that you teach and you're like, you know, executing it on your own personal level too.

00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:04.880
Yeah.

00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:18.240
But I think so many business owners are on the opposite end of that spectrum where something happens or they have to take time away or they get injured or something, and and it and their business ceases to exist without them.

00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:32.079
Um, and and I it's a reality check for a lot of those business owners to then realize, okay, shoot, I need to go back to the drawing board because this this isn't sustainable and I can't take any type of pause away, regardless of vacation, right?

00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:33.359
The the important stuff.

00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.839
Um it's unexpected important stuff, right?

00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:36.000
Yeah.

00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.000
That's as I say we know and predict that.

00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:40.319
But honestly, I'm not gonna lie, I was very proud of myself.

00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.000
I'm like, well, I'm making as you should be.

00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:43.680
I'm definitely doing her proud, you know.

00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:45.519
That was yeah, definitely a reminder.

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:47.519
Yeah, no, for sure.

00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:54.559
If it like just the best way to honor her memory is like, mom, I'm I'm taking time away and not having to worry about it.

00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:55.680
Absolutely.

00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:57.599
But what's a real world story?

00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.200
Uh no names needed, obviously.

00:26:59.359 --> 00:26:59.839
Oh, absolutely.

00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:06.160
Of a business owner who went from chaos and burnout to running a scalable sellable business and what shifted for her.

00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.559
Yeah, it's actually a reason I launched my business.

00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.799
Believe it or not, this company that I started first uh was billed because of this.

00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:16.319
So this story of my best friend, she allows me to share it pretty much publicly.

00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:18.000
But she's a good best friend.

00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:19.680
She is a good best friend.

00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:28.319
Uh, but yeah, the day she brought her company to a million dollars in revenue, I showed up at her office and she was at her desk bawling her eyes out and said, I hate everything.

00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:32.720
And I came with champagne and flowers thinking we're gonna celebrate that.

00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.359
And I watched her build it from ground up, you know.

00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:42.400
Uh, and so that was the reason when I said, okay, this is something there's and I've seen a few of those episodes before, right?

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:44.000
But this was definitely resonating.

00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:47.200
We were from we've been friends for 20 years, so it hit home.

00:27:47.359 --> 00:28:02.240
And I thought, okay, there has to be, there's some kind of disconnect in all these solopreneur founders who are running so hard for that revenue goal that they forget that there's freedom goal in between that there is time goal that's underlying here.

00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:10.799
And so because of her, and actually she has been my client now for about seven years, uh, you know, people who are closest to you are gonna take the longest.

00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:12.319
That is a true story.

00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:17.440
Uh, but because of that, you know, she was able to streamline her operations completely.

00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:20.079
She actually, we it's it's pretty interesting.

00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:30.480
She's an attorney, and so we were able to bring her practice from seven attorneys to two and not lose the revenue because we've built their support stuff around them uh quite a bit.

00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.759
And so, yeah, and watching her grow in her revenue.

00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.640
But now, like she actually takes time off.

00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:41.200
She's planning to go to Portugal next summer for two months, you know.

00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:52.480
Just watching her live the lifestyle now that she wanted to create is what makes me exceptionally obviously proud of her, but also really excited for me because I'm watching these things unfold.

00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:57.279
Like, you know, the pieces that we're putting together in the puzzle, I actually unfold in real life.

00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:07.279
And that's honestly why I love running what you know, running my business and doing what I do is because when the life bulb goes on in this business owners, it's it's pretty extraordinary to watch them.

00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:08.160
Absolutely.

00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:08.480
Yeah.

00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:19.039
Okay, so I think as a listener, my one question would have been okay, you took a larger group of people and you reduced it to a smaller group of people.

00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:23.440
And I think for most individuals, setting aside that it's a it's a law practice, right?

00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:27.519
I mean, most people are in there's a there's service industry and then there's product industry, right?

00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:33.920
But like if you're in service industry, the thought of taking your team and reducing it, it sounds unimaginable.

00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:34.480
Yes.

00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:45.279
And you know, what was like the key factor in being able to reduce, you know, the human part kind of equation to it that made that workable?

00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:59.839
Uh it's really evaluating your team in terms of the level of um, you know, service they deliver, meaning if they're high level, more expensive level of service, we want to have obviously fewer of those people because they're.

00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:01.599
Really expensive for the business.

00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:06.319
And then, but also then seeing how do we create enough support for them?

00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:12.000
Are there tasks and abilities and processes that we can outsource to someone else?

00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:18.319
And it doesn't mean that she doesn't have high-level staff, it's just attorneys, her highest level, right?

00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.119
Which means we brought a lot more skilled paralegals.

00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:25.200
So some of the cost of her staff increased at different levels.

00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:30.000
We just we decreased the highest level, we increased some of the middle level.

00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:32.079
And I can also tell you it would be the same.

00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:33.920
I do this audit with all of my clients.

00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:39.440
I look at one, the cost of your team and what are they doing and where are they underutilized?

00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:57.920
I was with a business owner this morning who told me his second and third in command had about 25% capacity, which was crazy to me, which means they're underutilized by 30%, but yet we keep hiring lower level management and keep throwing money on a problem when we have options sitting right here in front of us, right?

00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.440
So I'm very cautious with that.

00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:04.000
So I always audit the team cost in terms of like cost to value ratio.

00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:10.880
And then I also would invite you, and that's for all business owners out there, audit your customer to value ratio.

00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:22.960
Because a lot of you take clients that you know for a fact you should have let go a long time ago, but you have that fear of letting go with everybody, and therefore they're draining the life out of you, but they're not bringing that much value to the company.

00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:46.160
If a business owner was going to take a hard look at their client base or patient base, whatever it is for that business, and try and scale back the individuals who are sucking the life out of the business or just aren't the right people, what are some tools that someone can just utilize just to get going on this process?

00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:53.680
Because I feel like, like you said, a lot of business owners are fearful of letting go, but they're also fearful of letting revenue walk out the door, right?

00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:01.920
And so a lot of times people say yes to projects or to customers that maybe aren't the right fit, but it makes more dollars come in through the door.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:06.559
And so, like, what are some questions maybe that they can just ask themselves in this process?

00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:07.039
Yeah.

00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:07.839
A couple of things.

00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:08.880
One again, right?

00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:14.079
Like when we're looking at the low revenue level clients and potentially sometimes it's in product businesses too, right?

00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:18.240
Not all your products are bringing the revenue that you need, and you could pour it into them into the inventory.

00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:20.799
So you have to do that same type of audit there too.

00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:30.880
But with service-based business especially, I would say look at your basically evaluate all your clients, look at the value ratio to the cost ratio, look at the time that you are giving them.

00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:38.079
And maybe if you're not even ready to let go of some of the lower-level clients, at least start seeing can we delegate them?

00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:40.000
Can I give them to my junior team member?

00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:42.640
Because the goal is really to free up your time, right?

00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:47.119
Or the upper level team, manager team that you have, you know.

00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:52.400
So start looking first at like if we were to let go, how much revenue would we lose?

00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:54.559
We we don't have to cut everything, right?

00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:56.480
We can do it very, very slowly.

00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:10.240
There's also ways where I found it with my clients, where we would start offloading low-level revenue clients to someone else in the return of exchange of some kind of kickback, of some kind of, you know, uh royalty, whatever you want to call it.

00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:31.759
So there are ways, I would say do it slowly, evaluate the numbers first, figure out if there is a way, offload it, create some kind of royalty deal or percentage deal, and then can we do it, give it to the uh, you know, lower level client, lower level team members, but also start seeing could I bring one large client to substitute five small clients, which is usually the case.

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:39.599
And then how can I find that one and start, you know, kind of creating at the top so then we can slowly let go of the bottom.

00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:40.480
I like that.

00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:47.279
No, and I think this kind of this next question kind of ties into this process of culling, right?

00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:54.000
Of going in and re-evaluating your staff, your customers, maybe your product line.

00:33:54.240 --> 00:34:01.039
Um, in your experience, what's the biggest mindset block that prevents founders from building a business that can run without them?

00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:02.720
Uh, fear, not faith.

00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:06.240
You know, a lot of them run on fear, that exactly to your point.

00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:10.079
If I let go of this, I will never get another higher level client.

00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:12.320
I will not get a bigger revenue stream.

00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:26.800
So that's one, it's really working on what do I need to do and how do I need to show up and what identity I have to take on to actually go and find more bigger clients, clients that are going to be life-changing for me uh and for the company, obviously.

00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:27.920
So that's one thing.

00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:34.159
But also the other big mindset block I would say is I do everything best, the I got it mentality, especially with women.

00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:35.360
I'm like, you don't got nothing.

00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:36.800
Okay, let's start there.

00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:40.559
Uh, and nobody's trying to pry anything out of your hands.

00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:46.880
We're just trying to figure out like what where what's the biggest time suck right now, essentially, right?

00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:48.079
Where's the bottleneck?

00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:49.280
Is that the client level?

00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:50.880
Is that at operational level?

00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:52.239
Is that at time level?

00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.639
So let's release that first.

00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.079
And as we start doing that, usually it's a trickle-down effect.

00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:08.719
But again, what I am inviting everyone to do when you go into this like fear state, remind yourself you build this, you have the most power, you have the ultimate control.

00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:10.159
You could literally stop everything.

00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:14.480
You can start offloading clients and they say, haha, just kidding, I want everybody back, right?

00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:20.079
So you have the power technically to change things on a dime at any point.

00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:28.960
So you don't need to be so afraid that if you say yes or no to one thing, it's somehow is gonna, the whole business is gonna go, you know, crash and burn.

00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:29.760
It's not the case.

00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:31.760
So slow and steady, I would say.

00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:37.280
Well, and I like what you had to say, which is like you built this business typically from the ground up.

00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:47.679
So if you have any concerns about your ability to make a change that maybe you didn't end up liking and then changing it back the other direction, I don't see why you wouldn't have the faith that you could do that.

00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:51.199
Have faith in yourself since you've done this before.

00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:52.480
You've done it before.

00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:57.760
Um, but I also like this idea of, you know, leading from fear.

00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:08.480
I was reading this book um from Brene Brown about how, you know, people struggle to ask for help, but a specific, like women specifically struggle asking for help.

00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:19.840
And this idea that, you know, I feel like we're all a little bit guilty of this at some point or another, where you have someone in your business and you're like, it'll be faster if I just do it.

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:28.400
And the reality is if you say that enough, you're not utilizing the people who you've onboarded to help alleviate the pressures of you doing everything in your business.

00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:44.159
And so, like you said, taking the time to train someone to do that task, which you currently only know how to do quickly and accurately, will pay off dividends in the end, but you have to take that time and invest it in order for it to work.

00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:50.880
And at the end of the day, you have to know when you need to ask for help, which for most people is probably now.

00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:52.639
You know, you should ask for help now.

00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:52.960
Yeah.

00:36:53.119 --> 00:37:10.480
And I honestly like, especially when I work with women clients, uh, I say, I want you to use words I need help because women are also masters at writing this elaborate emails or text messages or having a phone conversation, they'll use every version of it except for like a direct I need help with.

00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:20.320
And so I actually require my clients to start using it in their vocabulary where they specifically use the words I need help with, because I also look at it as selfish.

00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:35.199
I say if you're not allowing people around you, people on your team, people who are your vendors, partners, whichever way you're going, to ever show up for you, you're basically robbing them of the ability, of their innate ability where they want to show up in the heroic moment.

00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:37.280
And then they never get to do that.

00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.320
So to me, it's also a very selfish way to look at it.

00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:46.159
And I know it's a mind shift for a lot of people, but I would also start thinking of it from that perspective too.

00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:47.440
I like that.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.960
You've seen behind the curtain of many businesses.

00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:52.639
What's besides financials?

00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:53.599
Because we've talked about that.

00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:59.360
What's one underrated metric or habit habit that successful founders consistently prioritize?

00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:01.199
Uh SOPs, for sure.

00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:01.599
Yeah.

00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:09.679
Because a lot of times I think hiring and just growing a team fails because people don't, they're like, I have it in my head.

00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:10.880
Fabulous.

00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:19.599
You know, Joe here, who is coming in next week, is not gonna have any idea and not gonna be able to text you, call you at all random times of the day.

00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:27.280
So, especially with technology the way we have now, with AI coming in, you have so many ways to make your SOP super, super easy.

00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:32.559
And I tell people all the time, I want you to do a Loom video, use the AI, download that script.

00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:33.920
This is your SOP, right?

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:35.679
You don't even have to write anything anymore.

00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:43.280
Just literally sit at your desk, drink a coffee, talk through a piece of whatever process they are doing in your company, and let them implement that.

00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.880
And I always invite founders, this is a very cool trick.

00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.519
And if you haven't done it yourself, highly recommend.

00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:52.800
Whenever you implement SOPs, I want you to take that SOP.

00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:58.159
Whoever wrote that, it obviously doesn't need to be you, it could be somebody on your team, and run it.

00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:05.599
Actually, use the SOP to execute the process because you're gonna see all the holes, all the shortcuts that don't need don't need to be there always.

00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:10.239
Uh, but yeah, I would say not given enough priority to SOPs.

00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:13.360
I think they need to come as early as possible.

00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:21.840
Uh, even when you work by yourself, you should have del you should have basically systems, templates, SOPs very, very early on, even if you're a solopreneur.

00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:32.719
Well, and to your point, if you do eventually bring someone on, having those SOPs in place from the get-go, even when you're all by yourself, makes bringing those people on so seamless and easy.

00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:37.519
There's no additional work for training or onboarding potentially if you already have a library of SOPs.

00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:38.000
Yes.

00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:46.719
Um, I the one thing that I feel like, you know, too, when you're keeping track and updated on your SOPs, because inevitably your business is evolving.

00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:51.599
And I see this with my clients where I'm like, where you were last year compared to this year.

00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:56.880
I mean, especially I have a client who continues to acquire two to three businesses every year.

00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.400
His business is changing drastically year over year.

00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:09.280
And so for him, any SOPs that he's implementing across one business that's going to impact all of them, I mean, he's got to carve out the time.

00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:15.599
Otherwise, next year he'll be a business of 10 businesses and it will all be so disjointed.

00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:21.519
And so, you know, I think that it's critical to it's it's a never-ending, it's an evergreen process.

00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:22.960
It's not just a one and done.

00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:24.159
No, no, no, no.

00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:25.440
Just like strategy, right?

00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.000
It's not a one-year New Year's resolution thing.

00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:31.039
We we always look and Twick for sure.

00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:49.519
For someone who is a founder that's stuck in a lower revenue bracket, you know, maybe that one million dollar bracket, or maybe even a sub-million dollar bracket, and they're like, I just want to get past the one million, or I want to get above to a higher number, two million, whatever it is, right?

00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:50.639
We always want more.

00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:54.480
Um, and they feel stuck, working too hard for too little freedom.

00:40:54.639 --> 00:41:02.320
Obviously, through this conversation, we know the SOPs are critical, mindset is critical, having staff is critical, you know.

00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:10.400
But what are what's something else that, you know, a piece of advice that you could give for someone that's trying to break through to that next threshold?

00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:13.679
Yeah, well, I'm gonna offend them first and then I'm gonna give the solution.

00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:21.199
So I always say that the issue is not the market, it's not the audience, it's not whatever product issues you have, and it's you, right?

00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:26.719
So I would say first you have to take a really hard look in the mirror and say, where am I working on?

00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:34.079
Like, where am I spending 80% of my time to then see how we can free up that time to create the revenue?

00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:39.280
Because most of the time at that level, it's still either just them or them with very few team members.

00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:41.920
So, like the resources are still limited, right?

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:44.559
So it's not like they can say, Let me throw some money at X.

00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:49.280
So they have to be very cautious about where the resources are going.

00:41:49.599 --> 00:42:00.639
And so my invitation would be to see where can the most revenue in the next six months, a year, you know, a year and a half come from.

00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:05.760
I would say usually I'd stick with it like three to six months, really that first jump.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.519
Where can we bring the most revenue?

00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:09.599
Who can be responsible for that?

00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:16.480
And what needs to happen in my schedule, like literally this week, for me to free up the time.

00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:24.960
Because what I see usually with founders like that, they get so caught up in that like stress of it's almost like stress less resentment.

00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:27.199
I'm working so hard and nothing is happening.

00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:34.400
But 90% of the time, Paloma, and I hate to say that, but it's I've seen it like over and over and over.

00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:39.440
90% of the time, they're working on the wrong things because they literally run in the same track.

00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:45.679
So my invitation first would be brief, walk away, sit with yourself, really take a hard look in the mirror.

00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:59.840
Take a pause, take a pause, give yourself a lot of grace to again remind yourself I've built this, like I can change this at any point, but then also decide where's this jump coming from and get like granular, get granular to the dollar.

00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:07.840
That if we brought, I don't know, 10 clients at this revenue level, we could have additional, I don't know, quarter million come in in six months.

00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:09.199
What does it look like?

00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.039
How granular do I have to get?

00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:14.880
But most importantly, how can I get time to monitor that?

00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:22.800
Because most of the time they have to be responsible for creating that level of a jump, and they have to find time to do it.

00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:31.599
What I was gonna say too, I feel like it's it's always this misconception, and I do think social media plays a role in this.

00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:35.840
And unfortunately, I'm sure you see it a lot of times with the people you work with, but I see it too.

00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.239
People come to me and they're like, I want to buy this business on a hundred percent seller financing.

00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:42.000
And I'm like, that doesn't exist.

00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:45.360
I would love to have that be a thing for you, but it doesn't exist.

00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:54.239
And, you know, especially with the higher interest rates over the last, you know, nine months, I feel like people are really like, I'm gonna buy this business on really just a promissory note.

00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:56.159
And I'm like, it's that's not happening.

00:43:56.320 --> 00:44:11.199
Um, but you know, alongside that, there's this misconception, I think, with a lot of clients about how do we, how do we run in a way that builds and scales us to a point where we can successfully exit.

00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:19.199
And they're like you said, they're kind of running in place, they're stuck in their bubble, not being able to visualize or see the big picture.

00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:25.840
And I think I, you know, this idea going back to what you said earlier about doing an audit of your time.

00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:29.760
Um, and there's software out there that you can do that for you.

00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:39.440
So if you don't have the time to audit your time, you can buy a software that will help audit your time that you spend clicking around on your computer to determine what you've done throughout the day.

00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:42.000
Uh, I downloaded that once and it was an eye-opener.

00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:45.360
I'm like just clicking around in my inbox for hours at a time.

00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:50.960
Um, but you know, I think there are ways, like I think people make excuses.

00:44:51.760 --> 00:45:08.719
And I wonder sometimes, you know, how to get through to those clients that, you know, they want and desperately need the help to get them to that next level, whether that's selling or scaling or even just leveling up in a way that their business is more organized.

00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:21.360
Are there ways that you have learned to talk with your clients to give them not like the kick that they need, but essentially like the reality check of like, if you don't do this, we can't, we can't achieve the goal that you want.

00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.800
And I always say the same line numbers don't lie.

00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:34.239
So I always invite them for whatever trip we're going on, whether it's auditing the time, audit in the clients, audit in the team.

00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:35.599
I always show numbers.

00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:42.079
We just I break down, I create a pretty simple metric that I take time to create and I walk them through.

00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:45.039
And I honestly, most of the time, it's not even about the kick.

00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:46.079
I don't even say anything.

00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:48.239
I just say, I want to show you, right?

00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:49.920
Like it's like showing talent.

00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:59.760
I'm just gonna show you this is where we're spending time currently, this is where we're spending money currently, this is where we are having client, you know, issues currently.

00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:11.119
And if I 99.8% of the time, if I walk them through numbers without even adding my own commentary, they go, Whoa, this is crazy.

00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:13.840
You know, it's like they're day one in the business.

00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:15.760
Welcome to your business.

00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:21.280
Uh, and so, but I think it's partially because a lot of times it's plain old fear again, right?

00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:30.960
Like a lot of times we are so scared to look that we would rather almost like, I can't tell you how many women I meet who never look at their financials because they're like, I don't want to know.

00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:32.000
My accountant knows.

00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:34.400
Well, the accountant could die tomorrow, no offense.

00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:34.800
Right.

00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:37.440
And we can't just rely on that.

00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:39.840
So I again, we just want basics.

00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:44.079
Like if you know top-level numbers at least, you have a pretty good idea.

00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:47.039
That's where wake up calls come in most of the time.

00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:50.559
And usually all my conversations with start, let's just look at numbers.

00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:53.920
And then you tell me where you think we need to go next.

00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:59.280
And most of the time, like I said, it's their day one wake-up call, and they're really, really open.

00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:15.199
They may be still scared, and that's where I usually remind them that you know, I'm here, I'm gonna handhold you for the process, or your support system is gonna be there, they're not gonna, you know, just disappear on you, your team's not gonna walk out because we're gonna show them where we have holes right now.

00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:18.159
So, yeah, it's just having that conversation.

00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:19.119
I like that.

00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:31.360
I I like the idea of you don't even need to have the tough conversation, you just need to show them where the sort of hurdles lie or the roadblocks per se.

00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:40.719
I I was thinking as you were explaining this about the last thing I had said about, you know, if you don't have the time to look at your own time, there's software to do that.

00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:50.559
And I feel like as someone who has been operating her own business, and I know a lot of fellow female entrepreneurs feel the same way, there are so much software out there.

00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:51.840
It's endless.

00:47:52.000 --> 00:48:00.159
And it's so easy to just throw money at another software solution and then just have a conglomerate of a bunch of random stuff that doesn't communicate.

00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:13.199
And so for someone like, maybe they don't come to you and they're completely lost in their business, but they're they're deep in quicksand and they're like, I need to figure out which way is uh up at the end of the day.

00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:15.039
What do you tell those people?

00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:16.639
How do you work through that with them?

00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:26.480
Because like I can imagine, you know, for some businesses who have decided to bootstrap it along the way, and there's so many options for software out there, you know.

00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:33.199
I even had to call my own software, you know, last year where I realized I had just too many options that were not communicating.

00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:36.000
What do you what do you do with those clients for starters?

00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:45.920
I literally tell them, you know, I want you to take your financials and throw them in something with AI, like Chad G as simple as Chad GPT, and obviously don't put all the financials there.

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:47.280
It's still open AI, right?

00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:51.760
But take basics, take basics and say, visa my visa my current hurdles, right?

00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:53.199
I'm out of time and out of money.

00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:54.239
Could be option one.

00:48:54.400 --> 00:49:00.480
I'm out of time, I do have the money, or I have the money, and I have, you know, maybe I have the time, but not the money.

00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:03.280
So usually the variations are pretty simple, right?

00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:16.079
So if you just put that into one place and then you say, okay, show me what is the like if you were to prioritize the three things I need to work on next, show me what steps I should take.

00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:20.480
You don't need a lot of different software options to create something like that, right?

00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:22.719
You can, like I said, decide for yourself.

00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:24.000
Is it a time issue?

00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:26.559
Get a time software if it's gonna pull you through.

00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:33.519
If it's a financials issue, figure out some kind of software that allows you to just break down the basic financials for you.

00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:42.960
If it's, you know, you have the money, show me my three top clients or my three top product channels and how we can deploy them to build the next step.

00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:44.239
So pick the area.

00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:48.559
It's usually like I said, it's really only three variations: no time, no money, no both.

00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:50.559
I mean, if it's no both, it's a little bit harder.

00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:53.280
Yeah, a little bit harder.

00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:57.039
But again, then I always say, and by the way, this is my personal advice.

00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:00.480
I'm sure there are many other coaches that may disagree with consultants.

00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:06.000
My advice is always if you're out of time and out of money, you free up time first because it's faster.

00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:09.119
And we are going for a further, faster module here.

00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:11.360
So, how can I get you out of this?

00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:15.440
And at least if you free up some time, you can start looking for resources.

00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:26.639
Because sometimes money does take a little bit to kind of create whichever way it's going, whether it's financing, whether it's, you know, talking to potential clients or a channel partner or something like that.

00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:30.960
But if you free up some time, you can at least start creating space to think.

00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:33.679
No, I like I like that the the buckets, right?

00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:34.960
The the three buckets.

00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:51.920
And uh to your point, you know, I think anybody who's come kind of as far as they think that they can come, obviously, I think at the end of the day, the two pieces of advice that are critical, or at least three, I probably would say, is like look at your finances and and know them intimately, right?

00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:59.119
Two, you know, if you don't have any systems or even anybody helping on your team, that's probably the two areas you could focus on right away.

00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:10.320
And don't underestimate the level of help you can get from speaking to someone like yourself, because I think a lot of people back to this idea of like I can do it myself, I don't need help.

00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:18.400
I don't think people really realize, even in my field, they'll they'll come to me and they'll think they'll be the businesses, you know, they've got the contracts on lock.

00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:25.920
Like they've they used them from you know the get-go, they had chat GDP rewrite them, and I'm like, oh gosh, like not that again.

00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:32.880
And so, like, you know, we got to have that moment of like, yeah, you know, experts are helpful because you don't know what you don't know, right?

00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:34.639
Um, so you're filling the gaps.

00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:35.119
Right.

00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:39.119
Um you know, I I think this has been super helpful.

00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:50.480
In in closing, I would love to know, you know, anything else that you would want to tell someone who's listening, who's a business owner, who's thinking about scaling, and maybe any resources beyond reaching out and speaking with you.

00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:51.679
Yeah, no, for sure.

00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:52.639
Uh definitely.

00:51:52.800 --> 00:52:02.480
Well, one thing I could say for sure that I don't care how strong your brand is and how much revenue you're bringing, again, if your operations are not in check, that freedom is going to be very hard to create.

00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:10.960
And I've seen a lot of very successfully looking big businesses, like we said, the Instagrammable moments, but when you start digging, there is no freedom there.

00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:18.079
So for me, the biggest the big I always say the biggest flex for any business owner is how little their business depends on them.

00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:21.679
So that would be what that would be one part in advice.

00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:27.440
And then yeah, I would say if you're at all, because we're talking, you know, on the exit podcast, really.

00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:31.679
Like if you're at all, one of my favorite books is obviously The Art of Selling Your Business.

00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:35.280
So if you haven't read it, definitely read it and then build to sell.

00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:37.119
It's the same author, I believe.

00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:53.679
Uh, they're both really great because again, the earlier you start getting ready, and to me, when I look at exit, I look at it as creating freedom, whichever way it's gonna pan out, whether it's you selling, you're merging, you step in away, you bring in someone else to run it, franchising it, licensing it.

00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:57.920
But selling essentially is an exit that allows to create freedom.

00:52:58.159 --> 00:52:58.800
I love that.

00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:05.360
And I think at the end of the day, you know, most business owners have the exit idea in their brain.

00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.400
Not everyone, but a lot of them have that exit idea in their brain.

00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:13.599
And I think operations are the key to that unlocks that potential for exit in the future.

00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:16.480
Thank you so much, Olenka, for being a guest today.

00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:18.159
Yeah, thanks for having me, Paloma.

00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:18.639
Of course.

00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:23.039
If you like this episode, please like, share, and tune in for next week.

00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:29.440
In the world of business, not all deals are what they see.

00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:35.760
Fortunes rise, empires crumble, all with the stroke of a pen.

00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:40.239
Mergers, acquisitions, hostile takeovers.

00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:49.840
Welcome to Mergers, she wrote, where we examine strategies and stories behind the biggest deals in business.

00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:55.519
Because in MA, the real risks are the ones you don't take.